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Agent Tierny's "Broken Trust" condition should be changed or removed

by Connor_Richards · 1w ago · 3 posts · 57 views

Connor_RichardsREBEL · RESISTANCE · REPUBLICOP

1w agoedited 2d ago

For anybody unaware, the FO faction's Xi-class Shuttle pilot Agent Tierny has an ability that states ""Setup: After placing forces, you must assign the Broken Trust condition to an enemy ship." And the Broken Trust condition states:
"Treat friendly ships as allied.
Non-enemy ships treat you as allied.
While performing an attack, before declaring the defender, each allied ship in the attack arc that is not stressed gains 1 stress token. After you defend or perform an attack, if the defender was dealt at least 1 faceup damage card, or was destroyed, remove this condition."

I believe this condition should either be errata'ed or simply removed from the game due to how it can completely invalidate opposing abilities, upgrades, combos, and even entire list synergies with zero counter-play or way to avoid it from the targeted player. One of the most egregious aspects of Broken Trust is that it makes it so that the ship afflicted with the condition does not treat themself as friendly to themself. This is confusing mechanically (countless players interpret this wrong, and it is frequently asked in Rules channels), does not make any sense thematically (how can a ship/pilot not be considered friendly to itself), and invalidates innumerable abilities in the game. To put this into perspective, here is a very small list of example pilots/upgrades that become completely useless if their ship is assigned Broken Trust, including not even being able to choose themselves for their ability:

  • Rebel: Lando pilot, Kanan pilot/crew, Saw pilot, Dutch, Leia crew, every single token-passing ability (Kyle Katarn, Esege, Hera, Jake Ferrel, Ahsoka, Benthic, K-2SO crew, etc.)
  • Empire: Iden, Jendon, Palpatine crew
  • Scum: Boba Fett (AaD), Kath Scarlet, IG-88D crew, IG-2000 title (yes, that means the IG's cannot share their abilities)
  • Resistance: Lando pilot, C'ai (X-Wing), Leia crew
  • FO: Malarus (Xi), Major Stridan, LeHuse, "Avenger", Agent Terex crew
  • Republic: "Warthog", "Hawk", Seventh Fleet Gunner, all LAAT's with Fire Convergence, just about every jedi crew
  • CIS: All of the Tactical Relay upgrades (including Kraken), Wat Tambor, DFS-311, Networked Aim, Networked Calculations
  • Every faction: Coordinate action

Putting together a list with synergies and clever combos is one of the most enjoyable parts of this game to me, and I know I am not alone in that. But the fact there is a pilot that can shut it all down before the game even starts with nothing I can do to stop it feels absolutely horrendous. Tierny is the only card in the game that I refuse to play practice matches against if a friend uses it, because when I play X-Wing I want to be able to use the abilities that I put into my squad. The condition may have ways to remove it, but because those methods require the afflicted ship to deal a face-up damage, be dealt a face-up damage, or kill a ship, all of which cannot in any way be controlled unless the afflicted ship happens to have a crit-generating upgrade (that wasn't disabled by Broken Trust) and are often impossible to trigger until the mid or late-game due to having to get through shields first, this means there is no way to reasonably attempt to remove Broken Trust intentionally, making the afflicted ship stuck with the game-breaking condition for the majority of the match.

I think the simplest solution to this glaring issue would be to simply remove Tierny from the game in the same way that Bistan and Sloan have been "pointed-out". Imagine if Tierny became popular to play. The entire meta would be obliterated. Not only would synergy-focused factions such as Rebel, Resistance, and Republic have entire archetypes dismantled, but every faction would have key pieces that would simply be "turned off" and thus could not risk being used in a list for fear of facing Tierny (Palpatine crew, IG's, etc). For these reasons, I don't think it is healthy for the Broken Trust condition to exist in the game as it is.

However, if there is a desire to keep it in the game in some form, then I have some suggestions of potential erratas that would be simple and would effectively curb the most egregious aspects of the condition. If any of these ideas are used, then Tierny's cost would likely need to be adjusted to compensate for the loss of power/versatility. Either a single change could be used, or multiple could be implemented together, but here are my suggestions in no particular order:

  • Change the 1st sentence to: "Treat other friendly ships as allied." By adding this one simple word "other" to the condition, it gets rid of the most frustrating and confusing aspect of it. It allows the chosen ship to still treat itself as friendly, which would drastically reduce the amount of abilities that are completely disabled by the condition, because if the afflicted ship's ability states "friendly ships at range 0-X" then they would still at least be able to choose themselves.
  • Add this phrase to the condition: "After you defend, you may suffer 1 [crit] damage." This would give the opposing player a bit of control over removing the Broken Trust condition from their afflicted ship. The ship would still need to be out of shields first, but they could then choose to take 1 crit damage after defending, and thus with the faceup damage card being dealt they could remove the condition. This would be a painful choice they could opt-in to, but at least they would have a bit more control over being able to remove the condition if they really don't want to deal with it anymore. And this also has the thematic benefit of being very similar to one of the methods of disabling the Proud Tradition talent upgrade, which is the themed talent exclusive to the FO faction.
  • Agent Tierny's ability instead states: "Setup: After placing forces, your opponent must assign the Broken Trust condition to one of their ships." Similar in function to the Tracking Fob illicit upgrade, this would allow the opponent to choose which of their own ships gets afflicted by the condition. The ship would still have to deal with the stress-giving aspect while shooting and would be ineligible for friendly combos from their squad, but at least the player would have the choice and opportunity to mitigate the impact and thus not have the core of their list completely dismantled without any control against it.

TL;DR
The Broken Trust condition creates a Negative Play Experience by completely shutting down entire archetypes and dismantling fun synergies/combos for the majority of a game with no means of counter-play. Because of this, Tierny and his condition should either be removed from the game or changed so it isn't as oppressive.

DroidCommander (Dean)SCUM · FIRST ORDER · SEPARATIST

1w ago

I totally agree with you on that point. Although I am a FO player and enjoy the things Tierny can do, it could be a bit modified at least. Though she's not nearly as played much compared to the other pilots like Malarus and the Courier, so already Tierny is not that crazy since she's 12 points, she's easy to half-point and burn down eventually and only works 50% of the time with her ability inflicting pain on others. But for the 50% that gets affected (like LAAT Gunships, Lambda shuttles, really any ship that is support and has coordinate on their action bar), the "Broken Trust" ability is truly broken. I love your elegant takes on how the ability could be reshaped to still work well, like fixing the ability to only work on OTHER friendly ships and not killing the ability for the support ship itself or choosing to suffer a crit like Proud Tradition to turn off the ability. It's at least a compromising solution to an already somewhat 50% broken ability on a shuttle pilot. The funny thing is Tierny apparently has been banned in past game administrations so it's probably not the first time someone has called for a ban, but if it happened I wouldn't be bothered by it. I don't really play Tierny that much and there are better shuttle pilots for cheaper :)

simon ward

2d ago

"Tierny is the only card in the game that I refuse to play practice matches against if a friend uses it". Wow, Sad to think that you would refuse to play against this one ship. There are so many pilot abilities and crew abilities across all Factions that negate other ship abilities. Why not refuse to play against all of them? Tierny is a 12 point ship with a poor dial and low attack and defence. The First Order is quite limited in its range of ships, pilot abilities and crew upgrades. Tierney can be good at nurfing a very strong enemy ship, but she's not offensive and on many match ups is a waisted 12 points having little or no effect, so she is always a gamble to field her. Her ability is strong facing the right enemy but she cannot win you a match she simply alters your opponents tactical options. If you build an expensive support ship with no way of inflicting critical hits other than a random dice roll then I'm afraid or the ability to effectively finish off an enemy ship then you will always find that rare match up facing Tierny with a bigger problem of your own making. If you choose to nurf her as you suggest why dont you ban all the other pilot and crew abilities that effect other ships abilities?
Your three suggestions
ONE
Change the 1st sentence to: "Treat other friendly ships as allied." By adding this one simple word "other" to the condition, it gets rid of the most frustrating and confusing aspect of it. It allows the chosen ship to still treat itself as friendly, which would drastically reduce the amount of abilities that are completely disabled by the condition, because if the afflicted ship's ability states "friendly ships at range 0-X" then they would still at least be able to choose themselves.I think the best thing you could try is to play First order for a while and use Tierny to actually appreciate her her common limitations in most matchups.

Doing this would mean that if facing a list without any support ship she is totally useless.

TWO
Add this phrase to the condition: "After you defend, you may suffer 1 [crit] damage." This would give the opposing player a bit of control over removing the Broken Trust condition from their afflicted ship. The ship would still need to be out of shields first, but they could then choose to take 1 crit damage after defending, and thus with the face-up damage card being dealt they could remove the condition. This would be a painful choice they could opt-in to, but at least they would have a bit more control over being able to remove the condition if they really don't want to deal with it anymore. And this also has the thematic benefit of being very similar to one of the methods of disabling the Proud Tradition talent upgrade, which is the themed talent exclusive to the FO faction.

Wow so this suggests the FO player spends 12 points for one critical hit of damage to an enemy ship if and when to opponent wishes to take a critical hit. Totally irrational

THREE
Agent Tierny's ability instead states: "Setup: After placing forces, your opponent must assign the Broken Trust condition to one of their ships." Similar in function to the Tracking Fob illicit upgrade, this would allow the opponent to choose which of their own ships gets afflicted by the condition. The ship would still have to deal with the stress-giving aspect while shooting and would be ineligible for friendly combos from their squad, but at least the player would have the choice and opportunity to mitigate the impact and thus not have the core of their list completely dismantled without any control against it.

OMG let the opponent decide which ship to put it on. This is the worst of all. Her ability would never ever be used as the opposing player always has a ship that the effect main would not apply to! Tierny is effectively banned from play as she will be an overpriced useless ability ship.

To sum up she is not dominating First Order competitive list building, She is a risky 12 point ship to field as many lists will not be effected by her main ability. She has a bad dial and weak attack and defence. Yes she can be strong against a strong support ship but you don’t always face one. She can change enemy tactical options but does not guarantee a win or even dominating a match. I suggest you try FO lists for a while and play her to be able to appreciate her limitations as is and weakness.

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